Melbourne’s Greek precinct
Melbourne (Australia, where we live) has a Greek precinct on Lonsdale Street between Swanston and Russell Streets. There are Greek restaurants, cafes, souvenir shops, travel agents and a baptism/wedding clothes shop.
The food is great, both the main meals and the cakes. And the coffee can be either cappucino, latte or “Greek” coffee (like a short black - originally from Turkey?).
Over the years the strip has shrunken a great deal. It’s been whittled away by the older shop owners gradually moving out and an increasingly Asian demographic in the area. Chinatown is only one block away.
Is this bad? How can it be a bad thing if most Greek young people themselves aren’t even interested in reviving the area? I can’t help feeling, however, that Greek Orthodox culture has some links to my own Evangelical Christian culture, however remote that may be, and I’d rather the strip wasn’t shrunken any further.
I might add that there are quite a few Greeks at my Church. These aren’t Greek Orthodox, but are Evangelicals. Maybe it’s ironic in the light of my yearning for the Greek precinct to stay as it is for religious reasons, but I’ve known of Evangelical Greeks going back to Greece to share the Gospel with Orthodox.
Now if THAT’S necessary (which it is, because Greek Orthodox have no idea of the Gospel at all) then I’d have mixed feelings about the value of the strip on the basis of any remaining Christian heritage.
Hi James, good blog. I have two things to share with you:
1) regarding Greek or Turkish coffee. We drank the same sort of coffee in Lebanon and most of us make it in our houses. We were visited once by my cousin’s neighbour who is Greek. My cousin is married to a Greek woman and lives in Greece. She brought us a letter from him and we offered her Turkish coffee. The man who drove her to my parents’ house said that he also drank Trukish coffee. Boy, did he cop a telling off from her! “Why you say Trukish coffee, it is Greek coffee!”
2) Your statement that the Greek Orthodox ignore the Gospel is a generalisation which I consider quite unfair. I have Evangelical friends who are not so knowledgeable about the Gospel and Greek Orthodox friends who are very knowledgeable about it. I would never claim that either is the rule. In days past, I would have taken great offense at anyone going to Greece to share the Gospel with Orthodox, but of late the Orthodox have been doing the same thing in reverse in places like the US. Over there, many notable Evangelicals joined the Orthodox Church and are now sharing their new found “Pearl of Great Prize” (a term they use) with their friends. In the end, we all need to know the Gospel and our history. After that, we shouldn’t be suspicious of each other. We can communicate and agree on some things and disagree on others.
Ziad.
Hi Ziad!
On the coffee thing, we might all be safer calling it a “short black”!
Thanks for offering your thoughts on the Greek Orthodox. My view of the Greek Orthodox Church has mainly been informed by Evangelical Greek friends. If they have a correct idea of the Gospel, and they simultaneously say that “tradition” has clouded the view of their Orthodox relatives, then Ephesians 4:5 comes to mind. Is it the same Gospel or different Gospels?
Blessings,
James
Dear James,
Tradition is that which is received. The text of the Bible, and especially of the New Testament, was received by the Church and submitted from one generation to another. At one stage, late in the fourth century, the Church felt the need to declare a Canon of the the New Testament. The Church used several criteria to do this, but essentially it boiled down to Her deciding that 27 books were of Apostolic origin and agreed with the Faith preserved through the process of handing on. Tradition does not cloud the Gospel. It delivers the Gospel together with the understanding that was held by the contemporaries of its writing. Of course, I would never claim that no Orthodox believer holds on to a few customs at the expense of the Gospel. Would you make that claim about Evangelicals?
You read the Bible and interpret it on the basis of the Tradition of the Great Reformers. There is nothing self-evident about any of the elements of TULIP. They are only obvious to those who already believe them! It is interesting to note that a conservative Evangelical scholar like N.T. Wright should read Paul and come to the conclusion that Luther misunderstood him on Justification by faith. I am not knocking Evangelicalism here, I am simply making the point that we all have a Paradosis, a handed on deposit of understandings which governs our reading of the Scriptures.
Unexpectedly, Orthodoxy in the Western world is being invigorated by the zeal of those Evangelicals who are embracing it. In America, it is a phenomenon which has been covered by media such as Christianity Today. If you had been with me at Liturgy at St Nicholas, East Melbourne, on Wednesday night, you would have seen the following:
The Liturgy of St John Chrysostom celebrated entirely in English, presided by a priest who was once a Church of Christ pastor, with a congregation chanting reponses in unison, led by myself (a migrant Orthodox) and an Australian-born former AOG pastor. Unfortunately, most of the Greek Orthodox in Australia have never heard the prayers of their Tradition in a language that they understand.
Forgive me for the long post. God bless you and all those who are spreading the saving message of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Glory be to Him for ever.
Sincerely,
Ziad.
Ziad,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
You asked me whether I would make the claim of Evangelicals that they don’t hold to traditions at the expense of the Gospel. As you yourself were saying, there definitely would be exceptions if it is the case, hence your own comment about N.T. Wright.
As for TULIP, I see the T to be self evident in Ephesians 2:1f. I won’t go through all the 5 points here though, except to say that the idea that *none* of them is self evident Scripturally would be difficult to support.
The (Greek) Orthodox which I and other Evangelicals have come across don’t seem to have as active and/or vibrant Church life as you and yours do. You do, however, have a very different background in comparison to most Orthodox (OCF etc).
Perhaps I should have thought again about my original post before putting it in quite those terms (though the need for missionaries to the Greek Orthodox does speak volumes). However, Ziad, I’m just glad to come across someone like yourself who’s ready to take on a debate by the horns.
Blessings,
James
Hi James,
Thank you for your reply to my reply to your reply to my comment on your original post
I was satisfied with ending the conversation here, except that Terri said that I should point out the fact that I didn’t belong to the OCF. She belonged and I supported her commitment.
My commitment to Christ does not stem from my background being unusual in any way for an Orthodox Christian. I belonged to my parish’s chapter of the Orthodox Youth Movement when I was in Lebanon. I experienced the transforming Grace of Christ in the lives of war refugees. I also experienced the value of the spiritual disciplines of my Tradition. In that I saw Christianity from the vantage point of someone caught in the crossfire of civil war, I accept for my background to be regarded as unusual.
Sincerely,
Ziad.